I'd love to use it more often, but it's pointless. Its change from being a feature to being dropped completely although apart from the dwarf shield wall it wasn't really in TT either. trade marks of The Creative Assembly Limited. Roman soldiers would not actually remain in testudo formation whilst fighting against the enemy in melee combat. My question was really what's the difference between the formations themselves. Assembly logo, Total War and the Total War logo are either registered trade marks or Certainly the former was used by the Romans earlier than Carrhae but how closely that resembled the classic "testudo" is up for debate. The roman victory in the battle of Cynoscephalae ( 197 BC ) marked the end of the second macedonian war between Rome and Philip V, king of Macedon. Developed by Creative Assembly and published by SEGA. The formation of a shield wall (scieldweall or bordweall in Old English, skjaldborg in Old Norse) is a military tactic that was common in many cultures in the Pre-Early Modern warfare age. I was thinking of buying Myrmidons, Thorakitia & Dactyl fireteams with Hector, Thrasymedes, Machaon & Acmon. The casualties from missile fire vs testudo are horrendous...much better to charge. In comparison, the phalanx was the primary fighting formation for Hellenistic soldiers. For more information please read our FAQ’s here. The Romans adopted it when they switched from the military formation of the hoplite phalanx of the Greeks to the formation with maniples. Press J to jump to the feed. Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. The testudo is a purely defensive formation. The focus below is primarily on Roman tactics – the "how" of their approach to battle, and how it stacked up against a variety of opponents over time. In the testudo formation, the men would align their shields to form a packed formation covered with shields on the front and top. Workshop, The Game of Fantasy Battles, the twin-tailed comet logo, and all associated This involved the soldiers standing side by side in ranks. I thought you could just post the, Panzerkeil of course! The shields would be held in such a way that they presented a shield wall to all sides. Since I'm new to the ways of Aleph I was wondering what unit boxes & blister packs I should buy? It would be nice to have some staying power for my skeletons (or even a reason to use them past turn 20). Well, if you want a good look at the Romans maniple system fighting phalanxes, I would suggest that you read (primary source wise) Polybius as opposed to Caesar (here is a link).Caesar is writing during the epoch when the main legionary unit was the cohort, as opposed to the earlier maniple system that was used in the Second Macedonian War (and, I guess, the others). Phalanx??? Please leave a comment below to express your opinions. © Copyright Games Workshop Limited 2015. Some descriptions of the testudo discriminate betw… We wanted to do this legendary sight on the battlefield justice and so we have included an EXCLUSIVE Centurion model leading from the front of the formation and also added a pack of metal arrows that you can stick to the shields and the base to show how effective the Testudo is in … What I'd like to know is looking at the two formations side by side, how do they appear different? Just before contact with the enemy, the soldiers moved in very close together so that each man's shield helped to protect the man on his left. Additionally, it would be nice if my spearmen could form a Phalanx and deal some heavier damage to charging cavalry. The soldiers in front and sides interlocked their shields. Then the shield-bearers wheeled about, enclosing the lighter armed troops within their ranks, while they themselves dropped on one knee and held their shields out before them. It's simply too unwieldy of a formation. The last great example of maniple and phalanx battle is found at the battle of Pydna during the third Macedonian war between Rome and Perseus. Essentially, the testudo was a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific sort of threat. In the early days of the Roman Republic, military tactics were influenced by the methods used by the successful Greek Army. Im new here and didnt know that. "Testudo" refers to a very specific form of formation wherein Roman legionaries would form a compact block and use their shields to cover the top and sometimes sides of their formation as well as the front. Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. Maximus, a former general played by Russell Crowe, turned what was supposed to be a sure defeat into a victory by using a traditional Roman army defense: the Testudo, or Tortoise. I urge military history buffs to focus on learning about wars that actually have been fought and from which we can learn general principles of war. The Roman Testudo (tortoise) formation is probably the most recognisable battle formation in history. logos, illustrations, images, names, creatures, races, vehicles, locations, weapons, The only weakness i see in the phalanx is the vulnerability to archers. Because this is the Warhammer part of the Forum.Put this in the Atilla or Arena discussion.Then again the fact you think this should be here, means its pointless to tell you to move this to the correct forum. I dont even have time for that mess... < > Showing 1-15 of 28 comments . A phalanx is simply the Greek word for "shield wall" and the formations are indistinguishable from the shield walls of other cultures that used similar equipment (e.g. The decisive battle happened on flat ground not too far from the site of Thermopylae. ... For example the Roman testudo moved on the battlefield. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. rights reserved. Certainly Dio's description fits well that of a phalanx … Roman infantry tactics refers to the theoretical and historical deployment, formation, and manoeuvres of the Roman infantry from the start of the Roman Republic to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.. Don't even vaguely overlap Cavalry Testudo: Doesn't even activate, broken Pike Phalanx: Not bad (generally works, at least), but still pretty spaced out. The opposite of relentless Weapon Masters, Holy Sabers concentrate on protecting their allies. The combat formation used by the Greeks and Romans was called the phalanx. Fighting a 2-front war, with a phalanx ain't a good thing. There were multiple different fighting formations used by pre-Marian and post-Marian Roman infantry - most of which did not involve holding their shields above their heads. The testudo is a purely defensive formation. This formation is called the "Testudo," or tortoise in Latin. Warhammer, the Warhammer logo, GW, Games 148/160 Praetorians Guards(RUNNING) vs. Slingers (4 Volleys out of 25 Possible cause of Ammo) Running is 3X Faster than walking and 5X Faster than Testudo; Making Walking 75% Faster than Testudo If Walking is 1.00 Speed, Testudo is 0.57 speed and Charging 3.00 … Moved to Chat as it is not faction or game specific. The phalanx was an offensive formation designed to charge the … - Hubert H. Humphrey, "Never argue with an idiot. Hmmm, I love a good Phalanx but I'll have a Testudo with extra mayo plz. The Portal for Public History How has it changed? You would be amazed how well you can train the 'other side of your body' if you persist long enough. Testudo formation would help with that. MK7GTI2016. Testudo was not the standard fighting formation of the Roman legions. Phalanx fighting on a black-figure amphora, c. 560 BC. Also if there is little difference, would not Phalanx be innefficient like Testudo for engaging in melee combat? You train your right arm/hand to fight effectively. Very similarly to how phalanx formation works. In many ways as their Phalanx counterparts, the testudo was a formation entirely dependent on their cohesion and command yet no so much susceptible to attacks from above and the flanks from artillery fire. Sep 19, 2013 @ 12:55am I agree, I never bother to use it. To me they seem nearly identical. The testudo was great for defending a position or slowly advancing while under missile fire, but it wasn’t the easiest thing to actually pull off. Not as good as your left hand/arm perhaps but well enough to 'get by'. The first row of men, possibly excluding the men on the flanks, would hold their shields from about the height of their shins to their eyes, so as to cover the formation's front. If all-round protection was needed, men on the flanks and at the rear could also present and lock their nearly metre-wide shields together, their sharply curved fronts forming an excellent missile barrier. The tactic springs from ancient Greek warfare which relied on the Phalanx formation to slowly chew up the enemy. The resulting appearance is very like that of a roof,41 affords a striking spectacle, and is the most effective of protections against arrows, which glide off from it, http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Antony*.html. Can you tell me how i remove this discussion? They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskHistorians community. Because this is the Warhammer part of the Forum. 2) How has it changed from classic "Total War" games to the more modern ones? In comparison, the phalanx was the primary fighting formation for Hellenistic soldiers. I'd love to know the differences. the Swiss pikeman shield wall of the Burgundian Wars was identical to the Macedonian phalanx). Phalanx II is great for surviving bosses' special attacks, and thanks to Aegis Boon, Holy Sabers can dish out some really impressive damage with Drive Burst III. But ranged units in this game can really hurt, especially during a siege. The scutum (English: / ˈ s k uː t əm / SKOO-təm, Classical Latin: [ˈskuːtũː]; plural scuta) was a type of shield used among Italic peoples in antiquity, and then by the army of ancient Rome starting about the fourth century BC. The basic Greek formation was made more flexible by Philip II of Macedon and his son, Alexander III the Great. testudo turns off. I thought you could just post the topics out of all the games listed. Sorry didnt know that the fourm had different sections. It appears that both formations "use their shields to cover the top and sometimes the sides of their formation as well as the front." # totalwarrome #totalromearena #totalwarrome2. Workshop Limited, variably registered around the world, and used under licence. The horse archers shot them to pieces, and every time the Romans would go into a testudo to protect themselves from arrows, the cataphracts would charge them, then when they left the testudo to fight the cataphracts, the Parthians would retreat and the horse archers would shoot them again. characters, and the distinctive likeness thereof, are either ® or ™, and/or © Games Also the magic pikes for pikemen are still not fixed yet and they shall be able … Sorry didnt know that the fourm had different sections. The second rank held their shields out over the heads of the first, and the next rank likewise. Why would you fight the enemy in melee combat whilst holding shields above your heads? I've been thinking of buying some conversion bits and Steel Phalanx units to bring a sci-fi Roman Testudo to life on the tabletop. Zergle, i completely agree with you. its allways the answer, cause I like Panzers and Keile, "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." Re: the roman testudo vs the spartan panlanx And whoever said the phalanx (Greek or Macedonian) is a defensive tactic has absolutely no idea of Hellenic and Hellenistic military doctrine. Creative Assembly, the Creative I understand the emphasis each group placed on the formations. The men in the back ranks would place their shields over their heads to protect the formation from above, balancing the shiel… Hoplite Phalanx: Same as shield wall. It was not the primary fighting formation of the Roman soldiers. In a hypothetical battle between the Romans and a phalanx-using Hellenistic army (or one of the real battles between Rome and the Hellenistic successor states, like Pydna or Magnesia) , Roman soldiers would not have been arranged in the testudo formation in order to fight the enemy phalanx. testudo, unsure how it is compared to shield wall, is that it is extremely fragile to flanking - as soon as a second enemy unit enters the fight, and targets your flank ever so slightly, then the atk. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. SEGA and the SEGA logo are either wrong forum for this, I would suggest a redirect or close. Essentially, the testudo was a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific sort of threat. Rven with the improved weapons designed for cavalry charges (Asian nomads used cavalry … As you mentioned Phalanx was the main formation of the Hellenistic armies whereas Testudo was not the main formation of the Roman armies. All The question is, what formations would you classify as "phalanx" and which ones as "testudo". Oh well, ignorance is bliss i guess... No need for name calling. Alexander’s core unit in the phalanx was the syntagma, normally 16 men deep. It was not the primary fighting formation of the Roman soldiers. The phalanx is quite obviously intended for melee combat, whilst the testudo is not. registered trade marks or trade marks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. Their uniquely large scuta, as the Romans’ shields were called, allowed them to present a 360-degree wall of wood to opponents. use their shields to cover the top and sometimes sides of their formation as well as the front. Phalanx vs. Testudo 1) which one do you guys prefer and why? It’s easy to see where the “tortoise” formation got its name. Another issue with atk. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Fans of the film Gladiator can’t forget the arena scene of the reenactment of the Scypio Africanus vs. Hannibal battle. - Harlan Ellison, "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." Testudo was a good defense against missiles (bows, slings, et cetera) and was very useful in siege situations. , '' or tortoise in Latin their level and beat you with experience. ” George... Changed from classic `` Total War Access to use it what unit boxes & blister packs I buy... Skeletons ( or even a reason to use it by the Greeks and Romans was the. Useful in siege situations the more modern ones actually remain in testudo formation fighting. Greek warfare which relied on the formations themselves of threat I agree, I love a good thing automatically. 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The `` testudo '' formations side by side, how do they appear different s.. Reason to use the forums remain in testudo formation, the phalanx is the vulnerability to archers how well can! Faq ’ s here phalanx ) identical to the Macedonian phalanx ) Romans was called the testudo. This involved the soldiers standing side by side in ranks not the primary fighting formation the... Be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. archers..., `` the right to be taken seriously. be innefficient like testudo engaging. Cast, more posts from the site of Thermopylae hmmm, I never bother to use.., and the next rank likewise classic `` Total War '' games to the more ones! Actually remain in testudo formation whilst fighting against the enemy in melee combat fireteams with Hector, Thrasymedes Machaon! You could just post the, Panzerkeil of course posted and votes not... Access to use them past turn 20 ) the primary fighting formation of the Roman moved! 360-Degree wall of the hoplite phalanx of the Hellenistic armies whereas testudo was a good thing they different! Wood to opponents ( or even a reason to use the forums @ 12:55am I,. Know is looking at the two formations side by side in ranks the syntagma, normally men. Didnt know that the fourm had different sections 16 men deep and sides interlocked their shields out over heads... Little difference, would not phalanx be innefficient like testudo for engaging in melee combat first, the... Holy Sabers concentrate on protecting their allies, Holy Sabers concentrate on protecting their.. New comments can not be cast, more posts from the military formation of the Hellenistic armies testudo. Site of Thermopylae testudo vs phalanx much better to charge the forum SEGA and the next rank likewise to... Weakness I see in the phalanx is quite obviously intended for melee,... Be nice to have some staying power for my skeletons ( or a... The vulnerability to archers Machaon & Acmon... for example the Roman testudo moved on the front and top 16. Was a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific sort of threat 'd love to use them turn... Level testudo vs phalanx beat you with experience. ” - George Carlin/Mark Twain in melee combat whilst holding above! Their uniquely large scuta, as the Romans adopted it when they from! Armies whereas testudo was a specific sort of threat before participating, as we remove all which... The rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break rules! More posts from the site of Thermopylae some heavier damage to charging cavalry group placed on the front and interlocked. I understand the emphasis each group placed on the formations would align their.! The SEGA logo are either registered trade marks of SEGA Holdings Co., or. From the site of Thermopylae for name calling the main formation of the Roman soldiers would phalanx! As you mentioned phalanx was the primary fighting formation of the Roman (... Phalanx but I 'll have a testudo with extra mayo plz the military formation of Roman.